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Falkor
Joined: 09 Dec 2007
Posts: 13
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 Posted: Sun Dec 09, 2007 6:59 pm Post subject: Setting up a Zero-Sum DKP Model |
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First off thank you for all the work, this is a real time saver.
I don't know if the loot rules we have are just odd as all get out or if I just can't read to find out how to set up the rules within the log parser to set this all up. I think the most straight forward way about this is to post the important part of how we will manage DKP and see if that makes sense (hoping it does) and if it does perhaps we can get some help in crafting something up for it.
As described below the only DKP given upfront is for item drops. And the amount given is dependent on the items dropped. I would assume that an item list would need to be entered and values applied (tedious but doable, if perhaps there is an importable item list for WoW?). So basically, it's DKP spent divided by number of participants. And the only way the parser would know how much is spent is to know the item value before hand. So, while I think I have it straight in my head I don't see how to make my dreams come true in the settings.
Zero-Sum DKP Example:
The following group is in a DKP rated instance with the starting totals shown:
Messiah (Mage) 15
Ratboy (Hunter) 5
Boomjack (Druid) 0
Ralphedel (Warrior) -5
Ethec (Priest) -15
Total 0
After killing the first boss a caster staff drops that was assigned a value of 10 points. Messiah, Boomjack and Ethec all want it. Messiah has the highest current DKP so is awarded the staff, which costs him 10 points. Each member of the party is then also awarded 2 points for the drop (10 points / 5 players), which leaves us with the following.
Messiah (Mage) 7
Ratboy (Hunter) 7
Boomjack (Druid) 2
Ralphedel (Warrior) -3
Ethec (Priest) -13
Total 0
The next boss drops 2 items, an Axe worth 15 points and a casters ring worth 10 points. Both Ratboy and Ralphedel are interested in the axe, but Ratboy has the most points so gets it. Ethec is the only caster than wants the ring (Messiah and Boomjack already have it) . Ratboy spends 15 points and Ethec spends 10 (driving himself further into the hole, but still getting items!). Also 25 points were dropped so each player earns 5. The chart would now look like this:
Messiah (Mage) 12
Ratboy (Hunter) -3
Boomjack (Druid) 7
Ralphedel (Warrior) 2
Ethec (Priest) -18
Total 0
Thanks alot for your time and dedication to helping me and so many others.
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Lokorin
Site Admin
Joined: 03 Apr 2006
Posts: 697
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| Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2007 12:49 pm Post subject: Re: Setting up a Zero-Sum DKP Model |
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| Falkor wrote: |
| I don't know if the loot rules we have are just odd as all get out or if I just can't read to find out how to set up the rules within the log parser to set this all up. |
I didn't see anything about how one decides who gets the reward. Is it everyone present at the time the monster died or is it everyone present during some part of the raid (i.e. people are rewarded based on how much time they spent in the raid)? If it's the former then that's going to be a problem as DKPLP is built for time-based DKP (the latter case).
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Falkor
Joined: 09 Dec 2007
Posts: 13
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| Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2007 5:35 pm Post subject: |
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Let me see if I can make it simple and still clarify your question. Everyone who is there has the opportunity to receive loot (loot going to the one with highest DKP). DKP is awarded based on loot that drops (some bosses drop set items as well as other misc loot and set items will have different value). The total amount of loot value dropped will be the amount of DKP awarded to the raid split evenly to all attendees.
Now since we have not implemented this DKP program I am open to some changes, however, this is what I would like ideally.
Is that enough of an explanation?
From what I am understanding we won't be able to setup the loot rules I have outlined here within this parser. So the next obvious question is do you know of a parser or stable application that would? And probably the more practice question... what if we were to tweek the way we look at the DKP... let's say that a particular boss always drops 1 set item and 2 misc items... set item is worth let's say 20DKP and misc items are 10DKP for a total of 40DKP for that boss... we could instead of awarding directly for loot award for boss kill... award 40DKP split evenly to all raid members present... and to take it further this is a 10 man raid for example... so we could do that math ahead of time and say that all attendees on that particular boss get 4DKP...
Still not really time based... but the result would be the same as what I am after...
If this still does not sound like something reasonable with the current structure of DKP Log Parser than I would be interested in hearing some other DKP models that may obtain the same result. Basically I see DKP being gained by the raid at the same rate it is spent and since a raids success is accomplished at a different pace each time I am unclear how to do that in a time based system.
ok... guess I am just rambling now... thanks for the help in either case...
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Lokorin
Site Admin
Joined: 03 Apr 2006
Posts: 697
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| Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2007 8:21 pm Post subject: |
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| Falkor wrote: |
| Let me see if I can make it simple and still clarify your question. Everyone who is there has the opportunity to receive loot (loot going to the one with highest DKP). DKP is awarded based on loot that drops (some bosses drop set items as well as other misc loot and set items will have different value). The total amount of loot value dropped will be the amount of DKP awarded to the raid split evenly to all attendees. |
I guess my question is how you define who is an attendee or not? I.e. is anyone who participated in any part of the raid an attendee? Or is it someone who was present at the time when the boss died?
Ways to emulate certain rules include taking one log at the beginning and one at the end, awarding everyone who stayed during the entire raid. Another is to manually calculate the loot reward for each event (e.g. boss kill) and enter it manually or via an ingame command. Both are dependent on that you actually record the participation depending on how little time spent you want to reward.
| Quote: |
| If this still does not sound like something reasonable with the current structure of DKP Log Parser than I would be interested in hearing some other DKP models that may obtain the same result. Basically I see DKP being gained by the raid at the same rate it is spent and since a raids success is accomplished at a different pace each time I am unclear how to do that in a time based system. |
The default system takes the points spent during the raid and splits it amongst the participants based on how long they were present during the raid (hence maintaning zero-sum). The effect is basically the same as event-based systems, but being present during other parts than the boss kill is also rewarded.
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Falkor
Joined: 09 Dec 2007
Posts: 13
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| Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2007 9:36 pm Post subject: |
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I would define an attendee as someone who is there for that boss kill. If someone happened to leave before a boss kill they would not get credit.
Now to move on to how you describe the default Zero-Sum structure, this sounds like it may be much easier to go with. Do you run this "default" Zero-Sum system? And if you do, do you have a set of loot rules that support it? I would be interested in entertaining that as a system for us to follow.
Luckily nothing has been set in stone so some flexibility here is our advantage. Learning this stuff from scratch has proven challenging.
So for clarity (I tend to ramble too much). Let's assume for a moment that we have no loot rules and instead the above is a loose description of what we are looking to do. How would you propose is the best or simplest way of gaining that Zero-Sum style DKP system (whether time or event based... sounding like time based is how we'd go with your setup)?
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Lokorin
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Joined: 03 Apr 2006
Posts: 697
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| Posted: Wed Dec 12, 2007 4:03 pm Post subject: |
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| Falkor wrote: |
| So for clarity (I tend to ramble too much). Let's assume for a moment that we have no loot rules and instead the above is a loose description of what we are looking to do. How would you propose is the best or simplest way of gaining that Zero-Sum style DKP system (whether time or event based... sounding like time based is how we'd go with your setup)? |
I don't play WoW, but as far as I know there exists a tool called CT RaidTracker or MLdkp which can be used to track when someone joins or leaves the raid as well as when loot drops and bosses are killed.
From that tool you will get a log which can be fed into DKPLP. Using the default configuration along with the predefined pattern set "World of Warcraft (CT RT oldformat 0)" (use the dropdown in the patterns configuration tab) you should get a DKP system where people are rewarded based on how many minutes they attend the raid. The exact amount is decided by how many points were spent on loot during the entire raid. That is the system I would personally use.
If you really want to only reward boss kill then you could use the default settings with above but with "World of Warcraft (CT RT oldformat 0, boss kills as events)" as predefined pattern set and with the reward system set to "event-based". Then when you parse you will get one event per boss kill. You can then look at the "DKP out" value in the bottom bar of the program, take that value divided by the number of boss kills and then enter the reward for each boss kill manually.
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Falkor
Joined: 09 Dec 2007
Posts: 13
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| Posted: Wed Dec 12, 2007 5:34 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks alot... I will test this out and see what I get 
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Falkor
Joined: 09 Dec 2007
Posts: 13
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| Posted: Wed Dec 12, 2007 5:58 pm Post subject: |
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ok, I reset all the settings and selected the pattern you suggested. When I go to upload I get an error:
There were some problems while uploading. Most of the day might however still have been uploaded successfully.
com.lokorin.dkplp.ServerFaultException: Unrecognized reward interval representation requested.
I will browse the forums here for a solution and post if I find one.
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Falkor
Joined: 09 Dec 2007
Posts: 13
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| Posted: Wed Dec 12, 2007 6:12 pm Post subject: |
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Here is my configuration file
| Description: |
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| Filename: |
DKPLP-Conf.xml |
| Filesize: |
7.77 KB |
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175 Time(s) |
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Lokorin
Site Admin
Joined: 03 Apr 2006
Posts: 697
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| Posted: Fri Dec 14, 2007 11:14 am Post subject: |
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| Falkor wrote: |
There were some problems while uploading. Most of the day might however still have been uploaded successfully.
com.lokorin.dkplp.ServerFaultException: Unrecognized reward interval representation requested. |
You will have to select how you want the data to be displayed on the server. It's probably a better idea if the plugin uses a default if nothing is specified though, rather than throwing an error.
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Falkor
Joined: 09 Dec 2007
Posts: 13
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| Posted: Fri Dec 14, 2007 10:04 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
Reward interval representation
The reward interval representation decides how the reward intervals are shown on the server.
Individual adjustments
Each member of the raid will have an adjustment applied to them, one for every reward interval on the raid, with the total DKP that reward interval was worth. The summary raid itself is listed as being worth 0 DKP.
Compressed individual adjustments
Each member of the raid has an adjustment applied to them. They receive one adjustment covering their entire participation on the raid, spanning multiple reward intervals, reducing clutter. The summary raid itself is listed as being worth 0 DKP.
Inverted individual adjustments
The summary raid itself is listed as being worth the maximum number of DKP the reward intervals were worth. Members who were present for the whole raid receive no individual adjustments. Members who were not present for all intervals receive one negative individual adjustment for each interval they missed, worth the negative amount of DKP the reward interval was worth. If most members are present for the entire raid, and you want to see the maximum possible DKP represented on the raid listing, this option produces the least clutter.
Raids
Each reward interval is uploaded as a separate raid. Its DKP value is the worth of that interval. Members present for a given reward interval are listed as being present in the raid representing that reward interval. If you have a lot of intervals in a raid, this can produce a lot of data on the server. |
Is this the section you were wanting me to take a closer look at? I have read this section and would choose to utilize the Individual adjustments if I were to choose. However I do not see anything about where to make this change. Is this change done completely within the Log Parser? Are there any changes I need to make to my eqDKP site?
Thanks again for the help
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Lokorin
Site Admin
Joined: 03 Apr 2006
Posts: 697
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| Posted: Sat Dec 15, 2007 11:28 am Post subject: |
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| Falkor wrote: |
| However I do not see anything about where to make this change. Is this change done completely within the Log Parser? Are there any changes I need to make to my eqDKP site? |
The changes are made in the "uploads" configuration tab (in the server section).
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Falkor
Joined: 09 Dec 2007
Posts: 13
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| Posted: Tue Dec 18, 2007 2:37 am Post subject: |
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ok... that worked great... I am still getting errors but am also getting data in eqDKP... so I am making progress... let me take a closer look at everything again and get back to you with any other questions as I am sure I will have one or two
Thanks again for all the help
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Falkor
Joined: 09 Dec 2007
Posts: 13
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| Posted: Tue Jan 01, 2008 8:59 pm Post subject: |
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Alright... back from the holidays and took a look at this again finally. It seems as though I am uploading just fine now.
My current challenge is that we have bosses that drop an item "badge of justice" that everyone gets. These items never need to be tracked ever. Is there a way to ignore them?
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Lokorin
Site Admin
Joined: 03 Apr 2006
Posts: 697
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| Posted: Wed Jan 02, 2008 3:04 pm Post subject: |
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| Falkor wrote: |
| My current challenge is that we have bosses that drop an item "badge of justice" that everyone gets. These items never need to be tracked ever. Is there a way to ignore them? |
The easiest way would be to give them price 0 (should be the default) and then deactivate the "Upload loot items with price equal to 0" option.
If that doesn't work for some reason then one can alter the loot pattern to explicitly ignore specific items.
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